Read the following essay:
On Bullshit by Princeton professor Harry Frankfurt.
Here is a 5 minute video that introduces you to the topic and to Harry Frankfurt as well.
Video of Professor Frankfurt
Tell me what his argument is? Which, according to Frankfurt is worse, lies or bs? Explain how he establishes that opinion. What do you think?
Professor Harry Frankfurt made many good points when arguing the difference between certain words and their usage. Some words might have similar definitions, but that does not make them interchangeable. He seemed to think that lies are better than nonsense crap because at least when telling a lie, there must be some knowledge of the truth. He compared lies and nonsense to many things, such as bull sessions and humbug. One of the most striking comparisons, to me, was when he told of how St. Augustine distinguished between different types of lies. He basically states that there are eight different lies, and in all but one type, the lie is almost unavoidable. Also, these seven are not told because the person telling it enjoys lying or gets a thrill from the lie, where as the last type of lie is when it is told for the simple pleasure of lying. The latter, he said, was a lier, rather than someone who is telling a lie. He argues that nonsense is neither for or against the truth and therefore the words can be twisted into whatever is needed by the user to fit their needs. This is why lying, in Professor Harry Frankfurt opinion, is better than pulling nonsense out of the air. Behind the lie, the truth must be known. An example of something that was nonsense that Harry used was when a women, who was in pain, compared her situation to that of a dog that was run over. She did not know what that felt like, but she was not being literal. The person she was talking to was not okay with her statement, because in his opinion it was nonsense. In my opinion, there is a time and a place for lying and nonsense, but they should only be used when totally necessary. There should be no pleasure that comes from either and they should be the last resort to solving a problem. On the other hand, a calculated risk might have to be taken if there is a lack of time or resources to finish a task. In this situation, all outcomes must be taken into consideration and the consequences appropriately thought through, and only then should the decision be made to use either of these methods of deception.
ReplyDeleteI like your acknowledgement and understanding of Frankfurt's reference to St. Augustine. I think you have a good understanding of his purpose in putting that in the essay
DeleteI also really enjoyed how you made the reference to St. Augustine. I agree with you completely on saying that there is a certain time and place for lying and for nonsense. You definitely thought this one out well.
DeleteIt was smart to talk about the eight different lies and providing some examples throughout the blog of different ideas mentioned.
Delete"Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are." This is a statement that Frankfurt makes on page nineteen of his his essay. Though late in the writing, I believe that this is Frankfurt's argument on the topic of bullshit in writing. His argument also happens to be his opinion on which, lies or bullshit, is worse. Throughout his writing, he gives many examples of the definition of bullshit, or humbug, as he sometimes calls it. He also gives definitions of lies, yet until the end of the essay he does not completely compare them. Through the beginning and middle of the essay, it almost seems to me as though he is indifferent as to whether lying of humbug is worse. As I saw, it is only towards the end of the essay where he gives a pure argument as to why lying is worse. The video, however, shows Frankfurt's opinion in its true form, as you can hear the tone in his voice and understand his very true opinion on this subject. Frankfurt states that both liars and people who speak the truth have full knowledge of the truth, but the way they interpret this truth indicates how others see them. However, bullshitters have no regard for the truth and do not even know it, nor care about it. In reading this essay, Frankfurt has managed to make my opinion similar to his on this subject. I do agree that bulls hitting an idea is worse than lying about it, for the former has to do with ignorance, but the latter is full-knowing.
ReplyDeleteI like how you talk about the tone in his voice during the video. I agree that he was passionate about the topic. I think you showed a clear understanding of his views. Also, the fact that you agree with him makes it clear that he had a well formed argument.
DeleteI like how you say what type of examples he gives in his essay, and in the video. I also like how you say that "Frankfurt has managed to make my opinion similar to his on this subject." This kinda shows how in his essay and his video he did a good job persuading his ideas into your own ideas.
DeleteI like how you compared bullshit to humbug because Frankfurt did use that term in his essay. I also like how you compared his views in the beginning of the essay to those at the end when they all become clear.
Delete"One of the most salient features of our culture is that there is so much bullshit." Why is there so much bullshit? asks Frankfurt. Why is there so much bullshit in this day in age? His answer is that there may not be any more bullshit now than in other periods. We have no real way of knowing this exactly. BS can be neither true nor false. Frankfurt makes an important argument between lying and bullshitting. In this case both the liar and the bullshitter are both trying to get away with something. Frankfurt had a very different tone of voice in this essay. He gives clarification as to what a lie is but only at the concluding portion of the essay. He believes that's lies are better than BS because all BS is is a bunch of crap that someone's says, whereas lies do have somewhat a sense of good knowledge. After reading the essay, i watched the video. The video was very good, because instead of guessing what his tone of voice was in the essay, you could actually hear how he was talking. I believe that there is no actual good time to tell a lie or to bullshit, but if I had to choose I think that bs would actually be better, because for all we know it could be the truth. One may be unsure on if a statement is a lie or BS but all in all you won't know the truth unless you know the facts.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the fact that you should not just lie or bullshit at any point. I like how you brought up how he clarifies everything in the concluding points of the paragraph. It was great that you brought up the video and how you anaalyzed that to help understand the tone of the essay.
DeleteI like your theory that bullshit is more a human characteristics or trait. It is apart of each and everyone one of us. Bullshit is an innate characteristic we all share. I enjoyed that aspect of your paper.
DeleteIn the end of your blog you state that it is better to bullshit because it could very well be true. Sometimes in life you just have to bluff just as he said that's what bullshitting is. If you actually don't know something, you can still try to act like you do and maybe come close to the truth.
DeleteFrankfurt is arguing that he can explain the definition of bullshit and how it compares to lies or other of words similar meaning in this world where it is used so commonly among the people. He begins to discuss the similarities differences between humbug and bullshit and further into the essay lies are added into the discussion. Frankfurt believes that bullshit is worse than lying. As Frankfurt explains, bullshit is the complete disregard for the truth or falsity of a topic. It is not meant to find the truth or what is untrue. It is used to make others think that you may be something you are not such as how he gives the example of the man giving a speech about America. He gave it to show his patriotism not to give the truth about America or tell lies about America. On the other hand, lying is when one understands the truth, but decides to proclaim the opposite. Lying is basically avoiding the truth. I agree with Frankfurt when he states that it is worse to not even understand the truth which is bullshitting, but it is terrible when on knows the truth, but decides to twist it or change it. If a person can find the truth it becomes their responsibility to share it.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed how you added in the aspect of bullshit that is persuasion, which means it is not lying. Just like Harry Frankfurt said, it can contain the truth or lies all depending on what will persuade the audience more effectively. I also liked your reasoning for why bullshit is so important.
DeleteI think you really understand what he was trying to get across in his essay. I agree with you that when someone finds out the truth they should share with people.
DeleteMandy, you really came across many of Frankfurts points in this blog which was great. I think overall this helps the reader to understand the opinions he holds throughout his writings. You seemed to have covered this blog well.
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ReplyDeleteProfessor Harry Frankfurt's essay brings us to the realization of how much bullshit is present in today's world. His essay narrates the definition of what bullshit truly is and describes who a bullshitter is. It also brings us to a controversy. What is worse, lies or bullshit? Frankfurt strongly states that bullshit is worse. It is worse by nature because bullshit has no bounds. A lie has decipherable bounds. Lies effectively present false statements that could be easily regarded as the truth. To a person that knows not the statement is a lie or the truth, the lie becomes either agreeable or disputable. A lie is always told with absolute regard to the truth, according to Frankfurt. This makes a lie a deceptive practice. A person who tells a single lie is not regarded as a liar, although that person did intend to deceive, they are only a liar when they become infatuated with the practice of deception. These deception practitioners tell lies for the sheer enjoyment of deception and try to convey attention from the truth, but still indeed have full regard for the truth. The bullshitter, on the other hand, speaks with no regard to the truth. They speak about topics in which they have null knowledge. They do not intend to deceive, but their practice is utter nonsense. The bullshitter may go on and on incessantly burning useless and completely unrelated information into people's heads. He speaks upon important topics with complete ignorance. He only cares if others think he is intelligent. This fills society with false information. Why people go on verbal tangents about topics they know nothing about is far beyond my conception. All I will say is that I agree with Frankfurt's view on bullshit. It is better to speak lies with complete regard to deception than speaking brainless information with no truth regard. Lies are at least somewhat intelligent. Bullshit makes society stupid, therefore the largest idiot is the bullshitter himself.
ReplyDeleteHe does make it known how much bullshit is used. You really hate on people who bullshit in your blog and you say that they are idiots and that they just make stuff up. The sad part is that it is accurate and that is what our society is full of today.
DeleteThe truth, an indelible aspect of society, is engaged in an endless battle between the truth-seeker and those whom attempt to conceal it. According to Harry Frankfurt, there are two methods of concealing the reality, one far worse for society than the other. These two methods are lying and bullshitting. Bullshit, in Frankfurt's argument, is far more "insidious" to lying. Bullshit conceals the truth but in a mischievous and elusive way. There is no specific fault in the language that allows you to detect a lie. That is because bullshit is meant to appeal to the audience as well as persuade the audience to think more highly of the speaker. That fundamental characteristic of "bs" is the basis of Frankfurt's argument. He supports this argument through contemporary examples about climate change, as well as, older examples through letters and other historical text. He calmly points out the faults in bullshit, faults that many people fail to notice. I personally agree that bullshitting is a very dangerous aspect of social communications. However, I believe that bullshit is as part of our society as that of the truth. Bullshitting can be and is used for sufficient conversation starters and maintainers. Without bullshit, many of the people I communicate with would be ignorant to parts of my life, and vice versa. I believe that bullshit has the power to unify communities and cultures together in ways that would be implausible without the language of a skilled bullshitter. That's why, in conclusion, I say that bullshit is a dangerous but effective method of communication.
ReplyDeleteI really like how you opened your blog. It presents the information in a unique way. I also liked how you spoke of Frankfurt's topic of concealing reality everything in your blog appeals well to Frankfurt's topic.
DeleteLogan,
DeleteI like your point on the idea that bullshit dangerous. it really is when you think about it, which is what one really has to do in this world of bullshit.
In our language there is a vast amount of bullshit in which everyone is almost aware of. Just about every person puts in their share to the distinct talk. Harry Frankfurt revealed his argument within his short writing of "On Bullshit" as modern culture having one of the most noticeable features dealing with the use of bullshit. He also added in an input to the recognition between bullshit and lying. He states that through a lie there is still a regard toward truth. With bullshit there really is no consideration toward truth. A bullshitter is not all that care worthy about how true the statements he/she proclaims. They just form a distraction for the main focus of what they want you to think or believe in. Both the bullshitter and liar want you to believe is that they are revealing nothing but the actual truth. Harry stated, "To establish and to sustain an advanced culture, we need to avoid being debilitated either by error or by ignorance. We need to know—and, of course, we must also understand how to make productive use of—a great many truths." Culture revolves around the daily use of language and people. If false hopes are created within the works and talk of the people then negative information is brought upon the culture. In order to create a society with advancements in language by the use of truths the bullshit must be limited down. Bullshit leads into the bad habits of communication allowing disadvantages to come into the action of the people.
ReplyDeleteI believe that he thinks that lies and Bullshit go hand in hand with each other, but then again they don’t. They are different, but similar. Bullshit is when one is telling another something they maybe do not know is true or not, they usually just made it up. This is what fills people’s last minute papers. Lies, however, are when someone knows a statement is wrong but tells it as if it is correct. Lies could also be if the speaker tells the truth but speaks it with a tone of voice that shows that they really don’t believe a word. Bullshit is the misrepresentation of the thoughts and feelings inside one’s head, but lies are the misrepresentation of both the thoughts inside and what they are talking about. The funniest part of writing this paper is that I realize that I am bullshitting a paper that is on the negative facts and parts of bullshitting. Frankfurt was quite correct when he spoke about how most of what we say really is bullshit. The sad part? Everyone uses it but none of us know we are. If we do know, then usually it is not the full truth of the nature of the bullshit. I believe that part of the reason of his paper was to instruct the common people on what they are doing. Bullshit can be anything from semi lying about something, to full on just pretending to be enthusiastic about the one thing your friend can’t seem to shut up about. As a human race, we bullshit just about everything unless we are genuinely interested in the subject. The worst part is that no one knows. It’s a silent epidemic that is taking over our nation. This is why I believe that lies are the better of the two. Lies are really not caring, while bullshit is more like pretending to care when one really doesn’t. It’s like having 50 “friends” that don’t actually care or having five real friends that will do anything for you. Which would you choose?
ReplyDeleteIn his essay, Frankfurt describes the difference between false speaking and faulty speaking. His argument compares the art of lying and the art of bullshitting. He explains that in the act of speaking bull shit the writer or speaker is not fully speaking false words. While speaking or writing in bullshit the author is just making things up so therefore they cannot be lying but they still don't know what they are talking about. He explains that bullshit is like bluffing and the person engaged in it has to take a kind of a risk while doing so. The person bluffing must do their best to make the audience believe that they know something when in fact they don't. When someone lies, however, they know what the full truth is on a certain matter and they completely disregard it and willing speak false words. Frankfurt is very convinced that lying is better than bs. His argument states that he thinks a person using bullshit is simply "speaking nonsense". While a person that is lying knows the truth but chooses to say the opposite of it. I disagree with Frankfurt, I think that lying is a worse act than bullshitting. If you tell a lie and later on have to reveal to people that you did, you will ruin your good name in doing so. If you say something that is bullshit and later have to reveal that you actually had no idea what you were talking about, you still look like a better person because you did not willing deceive someone. A person who lies knows the truth, a person who bullshits knows nothing.
ReplyDeleteJoe, I like the way you described the bullshitter having to take risks to hide the truth. Also your concluding sentence was great as it covered the subject perfectly.
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